Perception >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> facts/figures/box-office/Domination/Big Grosser/Blockbusters/flop busters

IMO in a country where 99.8% population is not aware about box-office and its fucking bullshit facts and figures, Perception >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> facts/figures/box-office/Domination/Big Grosser/Blockbusters/flop busters

Who Agree ? Ok, I will not go in detail to explain all such thing, will illustrate one practical example. Being a box-office enthusiastic I always analyze actors based on data stats. For me 2006 was clearly belonged to Hritik having two huge blockbusters. Aamir Khan was next with two hits each followed by Shahrukh with two underperforming grosser. But I ask one common who is cinema lover but not box-office tracker, for him it was Rang de Basanti year. For him “Aamir ne to kammal kar diya, Mazaa aa agya rang de basanti dekh ke”. And I try to explain “Nahi yaar, Aamir ne to kamala kiya, lekin Hritik ne bhi kam kamala nahi kiya, Krissh and dhoom mein kafi dhoom machchayi hai usne” . But he reply “Are kahan , Krishh to bachon ki picture thi, Dhoom to kisi ko pasand nahi aay, 2-4 din chali bas, uske baad kisi ne na dekhi” . In curiosity I further ask “And shahrukh khan, uski bhi to Don aur kabhi Alvida na kahna thik thak chal gayi hain” . And he replied “Are bhai baat mat kar us torcher ki, 5 din tak khana thik se nahi kha payaa tha KANK dekh ke, sabse badi flop film di hai srk ne. DON thik thak thi lekin vo mazaa nahi aaya jo amitabh ki Don mein tha, shahrukh khan ki filmo mein ab vo maza nahi raha”. This is just an example. For Another individual , perception might be different. Might be few aother set of people thinks differently based on their personal experiences and relatively build perceptions.

Isn’t it interesting ?? Aam janta boxoffice nahi dekhti, figures nahi dekhti, opening bhi nahi dekhti. Public ko jo pasand aa jaye, vo HIT, otherwise PIT.  

“Virudh” Jab bhi TV pe Aati hai , My sister says “Amitabh abhi bhi Virudh aur baghbaan jaisi hit movies de raha hai’ And we all know that what was verdict of virudh ….  Public ko pasand aayi to flop bhi Hit hai, nahi to Hit bhi flop hai.

If down to 4-5 years, one analyze the career of stars, 2006 will look like equal, for both SRK and Aamir, if one check BOI verdicts and data. But perception wise there’s huge difference which next generation will never know.

Ok, take another case. How many knows that Subhash Ghai Karz was huge flop ? It lost money for everyone associated. If I told this fact to any common man, he might laugh on me. Unless one go to box-office archive and check the verdict of movie, this movie will remain a blockbuster  perception wise (Boxoffice india has wrongly put it as semi hit).

I just wonder if one just leave box-office and fanatic mind out of head and think about movies and their merits, what would be the outcome ? Can we start from year 2010 and will go back upto year 2000 ? Don’t ever think of hits and flops and your favourite stars (though I know this is quite impossible for boxoffice mosquitoes to do brainstorming without box-office) , but we can try at least. Will be interesting to know about all these past years perseption wise dominated movies (don’t think about stars, just movies).

Guys make a try at comment section .


~ by Yakuza on August 16, 2010.

31 Responses to “Perception >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> facts/figures/box-office/Domination/Big Grosser/Blockbusters/flop busters”

  1. Hey bro, you are right about Karz. I remember Subhash Ghai admitting it in a interview with Rediff. “You see, when I was making Karz, a lot of people said not to make it. The film flopped and I feel till the time you don’t have the guts to take a risk, you will never go ahead.”

    “Take, for example, Karz. It was commercially a flop and every critic criticised that film. In the 1980s, Karz was like today’s Kisna.”

    http://www.rediff.com/movies/2008/mar/06ghai.htm

    • Tons of thanks for link randyyyy … 🙂

      I always afraid to write this fact because Karz was so badly perception wise super hit that without any solid proof i never want to indulge in unnecessary debates. But thank god, you give me proof from subhash ghai itself.

      Atleast from now on i can say it firmly … 🙂

      btw i do have filminformation rating for this movie, lekin yaar scan karna is big headache ..

      • Haha, lol. No worries bro. No doubt Karz was a good film, but if the producer himself admit that Karz flopped, what more proof do you need? I think BOI really needs to change some of their verdicts. I’m going to write something up in a bit.

    • another flaw with the inflation adjustment theory is that the value of rupee has not decreased in the same proprtion as the increase in the ticket rates. at the time of shaolay the evrage ticket rate was 2 rs, today its 200 rs. but inflation has not shot up in tha same proportoion

  2. ok, i will start first with year 2000.

    While whole nation was rejoicing the new found superstar “Hritik roshan” , Contrary to this i was terribly tortured by both his movies came out this year. I was feeling like step out of theater during Kaho Na Pyaar Hai and was wondering what make audience nostalgic about this movie ? But i was cursing Rakesh roshan more (as i found hritik a decent watch). I always believe Rakesh a mediocre director and this movie firm my belief once more. I saw Mission kashmir before mohabbatein (don’t remember why ?) , But once again this movie proved to be another torcher of year for me. Didn’t like it (Ahh now i remind, because of its awesome songs, i watched MK first). Overall hritik for me was mysterious superstar of year, Sab kah rahe hain ki superstar hai, SRK ko piche chod diya, Par meri samazh se bahar hai (i didn’t watch fiza).

    I was waiting for Aamir’s mela impatiently (specially after sarfrosh i thought it should be awesome). But it turned out another terrible experience (It was my first movie of 2000). Aamir sucked big time. A big let down.

    Pukar was my first mind blowing experience. I liked it immensely. It was my type of movie, and was upto my expectations. Thank god, Aamir ditched .. but RKS saved my month (there was gap of 2-3 weeks between Mela and Pukar). I was blown away by madhuri performance. It was my first blockbuster of 2000 ….:) , But Anil kapoor bored me to death in Bulandi. Ghhhrrrrrrrr

    Well Josh was next satisfying experience, infact became one of my favourite.I saw it twice in theater (only movie which i stepped twice).

    But my two biggest surpise was in small package, Hera Pheri and Had Kar Di Aapne. Both were laughter riot and made me smile through out. I recommend these movies to many of my friends. Saw these movies further on my computer multiple times.

    Govinda managed to entertain me two times in Hadd Kar di Apne and Jis Desh mein ganga Rahta hai, but also torcher me badly in Kunwara.

    I loved Chal Mere Bhai, but Har Dil Jo Pyaar Karega was so-so for me.

    Hate Ajay devgan of doing movies like Raju chacha .. Pata nahi kya ho gaya tha sale ko …

    Ahh i forget .. Loved Phir Bhi Dil Hai Hidustani … Loved it really ..

    Ab baat aati hai Junior bachchan ki, Badi besabri se intezaar the bachchan saheb ka .. Lekin … 😦

    I completely rejected junior bachchan in refugee .. And at that point of time i thought it should be his first and last movie .. Phir Aayi tera Jaadu chal gaya .. I was surprised .. Itni jaldi second movie ?? I didn’t see .. Par suna tha satyanash ho rakha tha movie mein … Maine socha ki chalo acha hua .. 2 movies mein hi nipat gaya .. Ab koi nahi ayegi .. Lekin hey mere rabba .. teesri movie bhi aa gay .. Vi bhi Aish ke sath .. “Dhai akshar prem ke” And unfortunately i saw it in cinema (mere hi theater mein lagi thi isliye dekh li), lekin is baar laga, he is not bad yaar. But movie sucksss. Overall torturous year with three disasters by junior bachchan.

    Mohabatein was saving grace of year for me … MK ke torcher ke baad , i saw it on immediate next day and was relieved. Except climax, and few scenes , i loved the movie.

    So doston … Meri Nazar mein 2000 mein …… (As a common man)

    Blockbuster movies were Pukar and Mohabattein .

    Super Hit movies were Josh, Hera Pheri and Chal Mere Bhai

    Hit movies were Phir bhi dil hai hindustani, Hadd kar di apne, Jish Desh mein ganga rahta hai,

    Disasters were :
    kaho Na Pyaar hai, Mission Kashmir, Mela, refugee

    This is common man perception inside me … 🙂

  3. I agree with your article. There is no doubt there are some people who practically don’t care about BO verdicts. All they want is to see a picture which they will like, that’s it. I would say 40-45% would care about BO verdict.

    For example, Silsila and Lamhe. Some people are shoxked when I mention that Silsila (esp, since Big B was on a roll at that time), and Lamhe flopped big time at the BO. Yet, those two films are regarded the best films Yash Chopra ever made. The public loves those films, yet, BO verdict don’t matter to them.

    Its quite strange alot of the films that flops for producers or actor (in terms of acting), are regarded their best. For example,
    RK Films – Mera Naam Joker
    YashRaj Films – Silsila and Lamhe
    Guru Dutt – Kaagaz Ke Phool
    Amitabh Bachcham – Agneepath
    Ajay Devgan – Zakhm & The Legend Of Bhagat Singh

    I think public could give two cents about BO verdicts, because they wouldn’t want to know about the economics of the film.

    Concerning BOI, most of their verdicts are wrong on their sites. Kabhi Alvida Naa Kehna was NOT a Hit as they claimed, the film crashed after a excellent start. Hum Saath-Saath Hain was a Hit at the BO, but why they have Semi-Hit? Plus, most of Amitabh Bachchan movies in the 70s and 80s were Hits, I don’t know why BOI gave it a Semi-Hit, even the entertainer Hum was a Hit.

    • Agree , but a few correction.

      “I would say 40-45% would care about BO verdict.”

      No, There are only few thousands boxoffice followers. BOI got 50,000+ hits per day. Add few more thousands who don’t actually BOI but some how are intrested in BO. It wouldn’t be more than 2 Lakhs.

      Rest of 99 Crore 98 lakhs poluation just assume based on their likings. If movie is good, its hit. Other wise flop.

      “Hum Saath-Saath Hain was a Hit at the BO”

      It was super hit even by Komal Nahta … The most strict classification ..

      “Concerning BOI, most of their verdicts are wrong on their sites”

      From their old archive, only page which they didn’t deliberately manufactured and logically correct is http://www.boxofficeindia.com/cpages.php?pageName=top_actors

      Though i found some minor glithes here too (Specially commentary was flawed) .. but overall fine.

      Rest of their old data is pure garbage …

      • According to their old site before being updated, they claimed that Amitabh Bachchan had 41-42 hits+. But when you actually count the number of hits right now, its 28.

        How is it possible that 13-14 of those Hits dropped from a Hit to a Semi-Hit or Above Average?

      • its is the most manipulative excersize in fraud. where stars like srk, kareena and ash even in their worst years are projected as hits stars. (off course with the help of the four letter word (two and a half times over) perception. and that perception is forced with comments inthis case. and offcourse media and middle class’s favourite whipping boy salman khan undermined. i ask a simple question iif ddlj is the biggest hit of the year then srk is a big star but wen maine pyaar kiya, saajan, hum aapke hain kaun, biwi no.1, no entry are the biggest hit of the year then why salman isnt the biggest star that year. its all manipulation by media and the middle class

  4. Yakuza, I must say this is your worst work till date. I will tell you why:

    1- First of all, the perception of a single individual means nothing. If this person thinks Aamir rocked that year and SRK and HR were so so, then there are thousands others who thought elsewise. Being a scientist, I can tell you that this is the worst possible way to claim something and base your case on it.

    2- It is also a research ethic (and it also applies on journalism) that personal opinions should not be reflected in ones work. That is where BOI makes more sense than your blog. They never propogate and motivate their figures. They seem to be neutral and you certainly or not.

    3- Coming back to business, a movie doing a lesser business can be a bigger hit than a movie doing greater business. Why go further, look at Wanted. It only did around 75 crores. But out of these 75 crores a major chunk came from interiors where the ticket prices are 30-70% lower than bigger cities. This means that more people saw and liked Wanted than let us say MNIK or RNBDJ which probabaly did more business than Wanted but had lesser audience. In our books Wanted might be a Hit or Super Hit and in our perception it might be Ok but if we go to interiors and ask it is Blockbuster both business and perception wise. My point is that people living in larger cities can never anticipate what common people living in smaller towns and villages think or precieve. For critics like you, it might be only Rs 5000 earned from a single screen, but in reality it might be the house full capacity of Rs 20-30/ticket theater.

    4- Don’t forget that movies are not static. They live, they grow, they fade, this is a dynamic field. And that is how they should be reviewd. As correctly mentioned, some of the classics like Silsala, Mera naam joker etc didn’t click at boxoffice but the producers made money in the long run because of their TV rights, re-releasing, music etc. These movies didnt bomb becuase no one liked them but because common people rejected them. But over time these movies grew and people started to like it and they became Classics. On the other hand HAKHK or HSSH were blockbusters but over the years failed to click with the audience. Today, you claim that Sholay is bigger than HAPK, not because sholay did greater business (HAKHK was the biggest blockbuster in its first run) but because Sholay had a re-screening value, which HAKHK didn’t have.

    5- Often a movie is termed flop, if it fails to meet its expectations. Look at Veer, it did ok business, even made money for some but still a flop because it was expected to do 60 crore+.
    On the other hand Aasha is avergae becuase it was expected not even to cross 15 crores. That is how it has been recorded in history. However, it is ok to adjust the record, 1, 5 and 10 years after the release.

    6-In old days, if a movie wasn’t hit in interiors and small centres, it was considered to be flopped and vice verca. Look at the movies of Mithun. Seldom he had a movie, which was hit in bigger centers but most of his movies were huge in smaller centers. You people dont even think about those movies, leave alone perception or actual business. On the other hand, things have changed now. A movie like Paa or WUS or many other examples, can do 20-40 crore business at multiplexes only. These movies are hit for you and you precieve them as great but for people living in a small village they are gross.

    Please take all these things in consideration, when you comment on movies. Your or my perception means nothing. Using this you cannt prove that Paa was a great movie. If you need to talk about perception, then it is the perception of those people living in interiors. And, unfortunately, they dont read or comment at your blog.

    • SJ, I will get back to you after a while. Just read first point of yours and i got the idea where you get me wrong.

      First this is not any kind of work, just a thought process came this afternoon and i put it in discussion section of my blog.

      Second, I never claim that movies should be judged based on any perception, There’s need of some standard parameters, and boxoffice is just perfect.

      Third, When i am talking about perception, definitely i am not talking about any single individual. Perception veried from one person to another. I just gave example of conversation with of my friend who is movie buff but has zero knowledge about boxoffice. When i am giving his example, it never means that is global perception. As i told you, perception changes from one to another individual based on personal experiences.

      And best example of perception theory is POLITICS, how many of us know the exact stats and data of work and performance of ruling govt ? During elections, People vote based on perception or general preferances. If work is being done satisactory in their local are , they will vote ruling govt without checking the real facts and data of their local assignments and global performance. [ And i guess same applies for movies too. No one cares boxoffice. And being a boxoffice enthu , i had fight with so many in past among group of frinds who don’t know about ABC of bxooffice and they just support movie based on thier liking, i remember my first fight was for salman starrer “Jagriti” around 90’s, i was school kid but very much aware about boxoffice, Jagriti was opened to 25% response in first week and outright flop, but few salman fans didn’t want to listen to me and as per them Jagriti and Chadramukhi was Hit movies. After some time i relized this perception theory and since then never ever fought with common man over boxoffice].

      Well i will get back to you in hour. I didn’t read your entire comment.But busy in some stuff. Not sure if this comment will help.

      But again, this post is not any kind of work, just a afternoon thought process.

      • I know what you are trying to say. All I wanted to say is that don’t use examples like this in your future work. It doesnt make sense.

        • Well SJ, this is thought process and without example , its significance is null. I am not sure what your objection is ? You are not agree on thoughts of perception theory ? Or you are not agree on example given ?

          In case if disagreement of perception theory then its fine, because even i am not sure, this post is just to figure out more about it.

          In case if your disagreement is on example given , then these are just views subject, to support what the perception is, and i clearly state that if i chose another set of people, perception might be different.

          • Lol. I wrote 6 clear points objecting on various things and you ask whats my objection.

          • My comment was to reply of your above suggestion about not writing about example in future. I will comeback to your points shortly.

          • but you cud have chosen an example that was in favour of hrithik, salman or srk. this is how the concept of perception is manipulative.

    • just before i could salute you for the most intelligent and rational comment i have ever read on this manipulative blog, the non scientist in you makes the same mistake in point 4 that you accuse others of making. how is hum aapke hain kaun and hum saath saath hain flops in the longer run. after grossing the high amount of money, mainly fron the smaller centers, 15 and 11 years after their release, whenever they are played on tv, they recieve higher ratings than most other phighly percieved movies like the recent my name is khan, etc. that is a more trues reflection of popularity of the films than random opinions gathered from your urban middle class freinds. so hats off to your comments but point 4 was totally unscientific.

  5. One more thing, remember that there is no direct link between investment and business. If you make a movie in 20 crores and it does 60 crores, it is a superhit for you. It make a 40 crore profit with 200% ROR. On the other hand if a movie is made in 100 crores and it makes 150 crores. It is only a hit as ROR is just 50%. However, in doing so we forget that the net profit is important. A 50 crore profit is much bigger than 40 crore. It doesnt matter what was the cost. What is important is how much is the profit. If a movies makes 40 crore and is termed as superhit than a movie making 50 crore is blockbuster. However, you will probabaly not understand this.

  6. Well SJ, I have already replied to your first point. Let’s move on others.

    “It is also a research ethic (and it also applies on journalism) that personal opinions should not be reflected in ones work. That is where BOI makes more sense than your blog. They never propogate and
    motivate their figures. They seem to be neutral and you certainly or not.”

    First your own statement is contradictory, You are making personal statement about my work which should not be reflected to my work … 🙂

    Well jokes aside, I guess i have replied it too. We are talking about study of perception theory. Definitely it should not alter the factual. But idea of my post is to figure out how much perception ‘s influenced the ones work ? , not that i am supporting any perception, that’s why i first printed out that you misunderstood whole idea of this post.

    Your 3rd point is quite very general box-office theory and matter of discussion, which i am 100% agree upon, but how it is related to this post ? In past on my blog itself we several times talked about footfalls theory and i guess i was first one to raise this issue on my blog.

    Your 4th point, again i am not sure whether you are objecting something or what ? We are well aware that few movies grows with time and box-office is dynamic process for sure. Not sure where we are contradicting ? Even i am clueless even if in this post something is against this point.

    Again in your 5th and 6th points you are talking about business dynamics of movie, We are on same page about these points, but I am clueless about anything contradictory ? And again we are not talking about anything relating to business of movies, post is about study of perception only. again “Study of perception” .. Not perception.

    By the way, thanks for nice response, but i guess either I am missing your point which is contradictory, or you misunderstood my idea of this post.

    • well, in this case, i am not a journalist but u r! I have all the right to criticize your work but for you it is important to keep your opinions out of any analysis.

      Other points are general and not related directly to this article. But still, if you call karz a flop then you are ignoring all revenues earned after the initial box-office run. On the other hand, when you declare Sholay as the biggest hit, you include all the revenues other than first box office run. That is a contradiction and thats why I wrote all that lecture. But you seem to be missing the point!

      • Well SJ, boxoffice is about performance at ticket window. No matter how much movie make after release from other revenues, if performance during release is not good or satisfactory, it will never be consider as success.

        Case in point is “Main Aur Mrs. Khanna” whose boxoffice performance was dismal. No matter how hugely it earned from satellite or DTH (highest viewership till date), Movie will always consider as flop. Similarly Hera Pheri which was average success, but huge Hit on DVD circuit, never considered as Hit by trade pundits. But yes very few knows this fact that movie was average at time of release.

        And NO, i never ever include any other review sources for SHOLAY anywhere in my blog. can you please give me link if i am mistaken. I always said it earned 15+ Crore on first viewing and 15+ on further runs (from theater only). Overall 30+ Crore which if adjusted today will come close to 700+ Crore. No contradiction.

        Talk of revenues os only for contemporary movies to calculate the exact cost. Otherwise never ever consider after release.

        • According to this theory Pakeezah should have been a flop as its business from first run was poor. When re-released film did exceptional business and became a big hit. Today, we all call it a big success. So, it is not only the first run which makes a movie hit or flop or superhit or blockbuster. As I have said, initially media uses its perception to declare a movie hit or flop. I gave the recent examples of Veer and Aaisha. So it also takes some shelf time to have the final verdict.

          Regarding Sholay, if you only consider initial run of 15 crore, then Sholay is not the biggest hit. In that case, HAKHK is the biggest hit. But you include 15 crores from subsequent runs. Thats the contradicion.

          • SJ, where i said that i am not considerng theaterical revenues from re-releases ? I am saying that once movie release, any additional Non-theaterical revenues never ever consider by trade pundits. Case in point is MAMK, which si despite poor boxoffice run, recovered cost for producers, but still stamped as flop.

            theatrical revenues always considered, no matter how many years has been passed.

            Black earned 5 Crore from Korea 4 years after its release, and i have key in this figure in journal for future track.

            • good we agree on this. hopefully, u will soon realize that other revenues should also be considerded. it is a business and any product that makes money is a hit 😉

          • @SJ, I will reply about sholay in one of my upcoming post “Bheja fry”. Infact i want to tell about this theory of my comparision of movies of different era. Adjustment is one theory, but it is arguably flawad and even i am not convince about adjustments. Will reply in detail in that post.

      • @SJ “well, in this case, i am not a journalist but u r”

        No, I am not journalist. I am IT professional and Trade Analyst. I am vendor to many boxoffice outlets and connected to portals other than entertainment industry as well.

        • You are developing, reporting and publishing stories. One doesn’t need to work in a newspaper or a tv channel to be a journalist. You knowingly or unknowingly are doing what journalists do!

  7. It was an entertaining debate for me

  8. “Are bhai baat mat kar us torcher ki, 5 din tak khana thik se nahi kha payaa tha KANK dekh ke, sabse badi flop film di hai srk ne”

    – depends who you are talking to. This answer must have come from a desperate bachchan fan after seeing a drona or teen patti or ravan. Don is something that bachchan fans hate…. more to do with the rgv ki aag than with don itself. can’t help it.

    individual perceptions are very subjective and the response is also very individualistic. If this actually was his response to don or kank, what did he say about some recent bachchan films… because some of the worst films recently have come from bachchans

  9. i think the approach has to be different for a business analysis as opposed to an aethetic/populairty analysis. for business the single most important criterion would be 1. profit, 2. Return on investment ratio and 3. lock in period/ speed of recovery. however to judge quality it should be 1. footfall or number of tickets sold. 2. DVDs sold 3. Tv ratings

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